John 6 is a pretty awesome chapter, and verses 28 and 29 put an interesting spin on the “works” stuff. (that we seem to get bogged down in, don’t we!)

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

I like the Incredibles illustration - mkaes me want to go home and watch it again. (Love that movie)

Again, I’v been playing devil’s advocate a bit - I do believe God speaks often. But firmly believe it happens through many different ways. Even those long dry times can be God speaking. It’s not how we expected nor what we wanted. It doesn’t mean that it’s not God though.

Sometimes I think we only listen for the good stuff and hoe the hard stuff will go away.

It’s still god speaking, but not God the Father, the you wlll be struck dead if you ever lay eyes on.

Q>. Who did Jacob wrestle with, if the direct presence of God causes death - was it Jesus?

Sure, God chooses not to speak at times, and we can have a desert experience, but surely more of the time God is speaking and it is we who arent listening? Rev 3.20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Should we stop listening for God just because he isnt currently speaking? I think of the little kid in ‘The Incredibles’ who sits on his trike in front of the Parr’s house waiting. Eventually, at the end of the movie, he gets what he was looking for - and it is ‘awesome’.

For the General - was the transfiguration the ‘last’ time God spoke? Voices from heaven are recorded in at least Acts and Revelation…how do we know there aren’t more?

Is there a link between a lack of quiet times and God not speaking to us. Maybe. But many of the faithful people through history will tell of times when God seemed silent DESPITE their times of devotion and service.

I don’t beleive God is hands off, but I dont think he will ever directly intervene against our will. Sometimes when we are open to intervention, or seek it, then it can happen. God never actually stops us from doing things, but he can make it pretty darn hard.

ps. Within two recent posts we are debating, in one: Mundane Spirituality, God not speaking to us, that faith is more important than action; the other - that we are too busy for quiet times. Is there a link?

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.” (Proverbs 3:5-6)

I think that sums it up, for me. I trust God to guide me to where I should go- and he will.

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Just saw your comment-

It’s not the works= righteousness argument, it’s the faith with out works is dead argument. “What shall we say, then? That we should sin more so that Grace may increase? By no means!” (romans somewhere)

And your second devil’s advocate question is harking to the modern cold, clinical “let’s prove it” attitude. What if the feelings are from God?

And my question- in the Bible, voices boomed from heaven. God spoke with concrete words to his prophets etc. WHY doesn’t that happen today?

And if feelings are a human emotion, and all humans are tainted by sin, can we trust feelings at all? Wouldn’t it be beter to leave them out of the equation altogether?

Being devil’s advocate….;)

You’re right, Matt. Feelings aren’t 100% accurate. They’re not 100% diagnostic of the reality, but they do exist, and do have valuable clues for what to do next, or about what’s happening. Sometimes.

two questions there- second part: free will. (ooooh!)

I don’t believe that God is strictly hands-off. He doesn’t just sit there, watching, popcorn in hand. No- I believe that God is actively at work in our world, and I believe that he rewards people who try. If you are trying to make the right choice, then He will help you.

Free will- it’s a cop out a lot of the time. Yes, we can do what we want. Yes, in all things God works for the good of those who love him. (Romans 8:28)

In the story of Peter and Jesus walking on water, Peter made a bad choice- he looked at the waves. But he was still OK!

Yes, I have a death wish (For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Philippians 1:21) . I want to live recklessly for Christ. I want to make my faith REAL- for me that means not sitting around umming and ahhing about what to do- You can’t get to where you are supposed to be going unless you are moving!

This is about faith- you can’t hold up evidence and proof it. In the end, you have to do what you believe you should.

You say a lot about how you ‘felt’ like God was saying something to you. But feelings do not always speak of the reality of the situation. Your feelings may tell you that you are in love with somebody and should spend the rest of your life with that person. If the other person, however, can’t stand you, it doesn’t matter what you feel - it ain’t gonna happen!

And if God gives us free will, why would he stop us doing anything at all? God has not stopped murders, wars, terrorist attacks and the like. Why would he stop us making a bad choice?

Your turn.

Matt- I believe that sometimes God doesn’t speak, but still guides you- as if by his hands. I also reckon he closes doors as well as opens them, but if you aren’t near the door, you won’t be able to tell.

For example, there were two ministry opportunities I was asked if I wanted to be involved in- for one, after thinking and praying about it, I felt like it was definitely a yes. The other, I really wasn’t sure, I couldn’t hear/understand/feel a definite yes or a no. So I figured that God would probably want me to do it, and would stop me if I wasn’t meant to do it. So I said yes- I moved, and he hasn’t stopped me yet.