Would you agree that they are similar cases? personally i have never held to the ‘born gay’ theory, but that may be due to my limited experience. Certainly the gay people I have known have indicated that they became gay or that there may be a cause based on parenting or abuse. Some argue that they were ‘created’ gay, and therefore God wants them to be that way. Do you think homosexuality can be cured?
The speaker alluded to the long term damage that we can cause if we mi-use sexuality, even in righteous expressions of it. Do you think homosexuality should be condemned, when you know that someone’s expression of sexuality has been tainted by their past, in particualr with cases of abuse?

Regarding the Catholic church being the main target, I’d be inclined to agree when we’re talking about views of people who don’t admit to faith. But I’m still wondering whether thos that do say they are Christian have more pot-shots at the Anglicans. Quite possibly it is an equal share…who knows?

There’s no ’secondly’ so I won’t respond to that…;)

The rest of your post is great, and says what I was trying to get across in a much better way. Do you know if there ARE any UC’s that DO have a gay minister?

Okay that might have been innapropriate.

Firstly, as a side issue I would be more inclined to believe that most swip[es at the institues chuch are at the Catholic church. They are bigger, more hardline, and wield more world power.

Thirdly, a few thoughts on the issue. You state that if God was against homosexual clergy, then the ministry would be a disaster. While I don’t know that the local situation, the worldwide effect of this ministry must surely be able to be chucked in that category. The split of one off the largest denominational groups over it - not good ministry. Of course, if you wanted to argue that ’succesful local ministry’ was s sign of Godss ordainment, then lets sit back and take another look at the Mormon church, who have fantastic local ministry. So do many muslim churches, buddhist groups. Probably many cults. Maybe even the local footy club.

B> 2 Timothy 4:3-4 Says “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth, and turn aside to myths.” I go to a Uniting Church. When they took a vote three years ago to allow gay ministers to be ordained, this verse was the first that God led me to. Yes, my chuch does not currently have a gay minister. What I hear now though, in the uniting churuch and now in the news of the Episcopalian (you think that a church that indulges drinking would have a name that is easier to say when drunk) church, is exactly what this verse warns against. The real argument comes down to this - do we believe what the bible says, do we mark it as sound doctrine, or don’t we. I beleive that the bible condemns homosexual acts - not homosexuality. Just in the same way, it condemns adultery, sexual perversion, lustful thoughts, judging, and not loving your neighbour. I think anyone that actively & unrepentantly indulges in any of these practises is not fit for active ministry in a church.

Sure, its a struggle to be gay. Its a struggle not to turn to a sinful lifestyle. But it’s also a struggle to be a single 25 year old guy and not turn to a sinful ifestyle. I get offers of sex, but i manage to say no. I understand that in my context it wold be sinful to indulge. And if it happens that I never marry, then I understand the consequences of that. Yes, its harder for a homosexual because there will never be a ‘right’ way for them to act on their sexual desires. But they aren’t the only ones that will never find a right way to act on their desires. Ask that bloke over in perth at the mooment what he thnks about that. I have had friends, both Christian and non-Christian who are homosexual. I dont judge them on that. Even for the Christian homosexuals who act on their desires, I honestly dont care too much. If they want to live in a loving, commited relationship, then I will support them. It’d be nice to see someone be happy. Giving someone an orgasm is hardly the greatest sin. But when it comes to them in leadership, I oppose. You say that the words you heard from a ’struggling homsexual’ were spirit filled. Hwo could anyone take seriously someone who was willling to start picking and choosing which parts of the Bible they wanted to endorse sa God’s word? I dont think the Holy Spirit is going to jump on that ride, somehow.

Oh look , I accidentally wrote an essay. didnt mean to.