The Global Anglican Church Splits
Published June 30th, 2006 in Questions of FaithThe debate about whether or not homosexual people should be ordained as clergy seems to have brought down the global Anglican Church as a unified body.
I’m not exactly sure of the details of who believes what, but this article seems to suggest that at the conservative end, homosexuality is seen as outside God’s will and thus not approporiate for those in leadership positions in a Christian church. At the other, more liberal end, it is seen as acceptable and thus there is no problem with gay clergy and homosexual marriages.
A number of things strike me about this situation.
Firstly, the difficulties in having such a rigid hierarchy where somebody from above tells others what they have to believe. Regardless of the issue, when somebody disconnected from your community, who may never have even visited your community, starts telling you what you should believe and how you should act, there’s bound to be a backlash.
This is one of the reasons I chose to be part of the Baptist denomination. Every local church community is it’s own governing body. We make our own decisions and have to deal with our own mistakes. Everybody in that congregation has a say in what happens and also a responsibility for the mission and ministry we are involved in. It makes decision making a bit slower (sometimes painfully slow) and it can be frustrating as the leader at times, but overall I think it is still the model that sits most comfortably with me.
I think denominations like the Anglican church are perhaps the target of most of the gripes against the “institutional church” and you can see why.
Secondly, I’m perpelexed at how an issue like sexuality can become so central to the identity of a church. Surely it was meant to be all about Jesus - loving God and loving others. Yes, it is a big issue, but to let it get to the level where it can split a world wide part of the body is remarkable.
Finally, there’s a curiosity within me about the churches that have homosexual clergy. One of the reasons I’ve never had an issue with women in minisistry (ordained or otherwise) is that it is plainly obvious that God uses them. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard a woman speak in church and been challenged by some new or different insight into scripture that she has highlighted. That’s a God thing.
If God was against homosexual clergy, then you would think that their ministry would be a disaster. But if God is using them, what does that mean? I have listen to a homosexual preacher before - not a practicing homosexual, but one who struggles with gay tendencies - and his words were as Spirit filled as any I have heard. Would a practicing homosexual be different?
I don’t think the homosexual lifestyle is God’s design for humanity and I think I would personally struggle to serve under a practicing gay or lesbian pastor.  But I’d love to hear thoughts from people who are part of a church with openly gay leadership…
Once again, interesting ad links from google. I took the test and it told me that my perfect lover was Gene Robinson…
Okay that might have been innapropriate.
Firstly, as a side issue I would be more inclined to believe that most swip[es at the institues chuch are at the Catholic church. They are bigger, more hardline, and wield more world power.
Thirdly, a few thoughts on the issue. You state that if God was against homosexual clergy, then the ministry would be a disaster. While I don’t know that the local situation, the worldwide effect of this ministry must surely be able to be chucked in that category. The split of one off the largest denominational groups over it - not good ministry. Of course, if you wanted to argue that ’succesful local ministry’ was s sign of Godss ordainment, then lets sit back and take another look at the Mormon church, who have fantastic local ministry. So do many muslim churches, buddhist groups. Probably many cults. Maybe even the local footy club.
B> 2 Timothy 4:3-4 Says “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth, and turn aside to myths.” I go to a Uniting Church. When they took a vote three years ago to allow gay ministers to be ordained, this verse was the first that God led me to. Yes, my chuch does not currently have a gay minister. What I hear now though, in the uniting churuch and now in the news of the Episcopalian (you think that a church that indulges drinking would have a name that is easier to say when drunk) church, is exactly what this verse warns against. The real argument comes down to this - do we believe what the bible says, do we mark it as sound doctrine, or don’t we. I beleive that the bible condemns homosexual acts - not homosexuality. Just in the same way, it condemns adultery, sexual perversion, lustful thoughts, judging, and not loving your neighbour. I think anyone that actively & unrepentantly indulges in any of these practises is not fit for active ministry in a church.
Sure, its a struggle to be gay. Its a struggle not to turn to a sinful lifestyle. But it’s also a struggle to be a single 25 year old guy and not turn to a sinful ifestyle. I get offers of sex, but i manage to say no. I understand that in my context it wold be sinful to indulge. And if it happens that I never marry, then I understand the consequences of that. Yes, its harder for a homosexual because there will never be a ‘right’ way for them to act on their sexual desires. But they aren’t the only ones that will never find a right way to act on their desires. Ask that bloke over in perth at the mooment what he thnks about that. I have had friends, both Christian and non-Christian who are homosexual. I dont judge them on that. Even for the Christian homosexuals who act on their desires, I honestly dont care too much. If they want to live in a loving, commited relationship, then I will support them. It’d be nice to see someone be happy. Giving someone an orgasm is hardly the greatest sin. But when it comes to them in leadership, I oppose. You say that the words you heard from a ’struggling homsexual’ were spirit filled. Hwo could anyone take seriously someone who was willling to start picking and choosing which parts of the Bible they wanted to endorse sa God’s word? I dont think the Holy Spirit is going to jump on that ride, somehow.
Oh look , I accidentally wrote an essay. didnt mean to.
Jus re-read my post. Had to point out (hey matt can you actualy edit this in? ) that after I said ‘You say that the words you heard from a ’struggling homesxual’ were spirite filled’, should say something like “Thats cool. But what words can we expect from a ‘comfortable homosexual’”
Bugger - I thought I’d blocked most of those ads. Sorry to anyone if something innappropriaye gets shown!
Regarding the Catholic church being the main target, I’d be inclined to agree when we’re talking about views of people who don’t admit to faith. But I’m still wondering whether thos that do say they are Christian have more pot-shots at the Anglicans. Quite possibly it is an equal share…who knows?
There’s no ’secondly’ so I won’t respond to that…;)
The rest of your post is great, and says what I was trying to get across in a much better way. Do you know if there ARE any UC’s that DO have a gay minister?
Hey matt, i’d been meaning to bring this up after that deali-o on Thursday. No, no, I’m not coming out of the closet - not yet, anyway. But I was curious with what you hought about the speaker’s attitude toward homosexuality. Mitch alluded to it, and I agree, that if you look into the sexual inclinations of a pedophile, there will never, ever be a righteous expression of that. Does that also hold true to homosexuality then? he stated that these two were very similar in their basis (their development in an individual) and in the ‘wrongness’ of their expression.
Would you agree that they are similar cases? personally i have never held to the ‘born gay’ theory, but that may be due to my limited experience. Certainly the gay people I have known have indicated that they became gay or that there may be a cause based on parenting or abuse. Some argue that they were ‘created’ gay, and therefore God wants them to be that way. Do you think homosexuality can be cured?
The speaker alluded to the long term damage that we can cause if we mi-use sexuality, even in righteous expressions of it. Do you think homosexuality should be condemned, when you know that someone’s expression of sexuality has been tainted by their past, in particualr with cases of abuse?
The lack of a second point was just too confuse you. ooh, but you are smarter than my trickeries.
General, I’ll start another post next week for those questions - all worth discussing on there own.